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 Post subject: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:09 am 
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Location: Hurstpierpoint, West Sussex, UK
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I like the facility of the “Apparent Temperature” or as I call it “Feels Like”, but I wonder if others are surprised by its rather pessimistic result. It seems to be regularly 2 deg C less than actual and even compared to wind chill is often 1 deg C less. Perhaps our antipodean friends feel the cold more than us northerners :?

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:25 am 
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I'm not 100% confident that I've coded it correctly - I forgot to subtract 4 initially. You could perhaps use the formula at the BOM and see how it compares for a given set of data?

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:44 am 
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I feel sure that the calculation is correct and Dan has also checked it out viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3482&hilit=apparent .
My posting was just a subjective feeling about the result..... having said that my wife would say it's because I don't feel the cold like she does and this apparent temperature fully justifies her cranking up the central heating :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:46 pm 
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steve wrote:
I'm not 100% confident that I've coded it correctly - I forgot to subtract 4 initially. You could perhaps use the formula at the BOM and see how it compares for a given set of data?



OK, I have completed a check using the BOM formula and I can definately say we are either both wrong or we are both right.... I get the same result as Cumulus ;)

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Neil
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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:08 pm 
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I'll take the 'we are both right' option. Apparent temp as low as -10C here today at times. And it felt like it, in the hail, sleet and F7 northerly!

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:24 am 
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Ugh!!! And I thought it was cold here :lol: That sounds really miserable Steve :(

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:25 am 
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Ugh!!! And I thought it was cold here :lol: That sounds really miserable Steve :(

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:28 am 
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Location: Hurstpierpoint, West Sussex, UK
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Just thought I would share this with you. The Apparent Temperature formula produced the following results by amending the actual temperature only:

Attachment:
Image 3, 10.png
Note that Reducing RH% and/or increasing wind speed will reduce the apparent temperature.
I know there is going to be a good reason (vapour pressure!) because some very clever people have studied this for many years but to me it seems illogical/counter intuitive that at less than 10 C the apparent temperature (feels like) is less than actual, given no wind chill or humidity comes into force. Interesting don’t you think….


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Neil
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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:41 am 
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I know I’m not the only one that feels the Apparent Temperature appears somewhat low when Ambient is below 10C and compared to Wind Chill for example so I have emailed BOM today just to clarify that the formula can be applied globally.

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:16 am 
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Location: Wilmslow, Cheshire, UK
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If you look at a recent graph from 'dane' viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3539&start=15
Then even at low temperatures the wind chill and apparent seem to correspond quite well - if there is some wind!

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:49 am 
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mcrossley wrote:
If you look at a recent graph from 'dane' viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3539&start=15
Then even at low temperatures the wind chill and apparent seem to correspond quite well - if there is some wind!


Hi Mark,

I agree if there is quite a bit of wind then temperatures between wind chill and apparent do start to come together, it's when there is no wind and humidity isn't high that the gap seems very wide below 10C.

I have had an acknowledgement from BOM

"Neil

I'll pass this onto the 'experts' in forecasting to check and get an answer or response for you...

Trevor

27 Nov 2010"

I'm looking forward to their reply

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:31 am 
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Location: Hurstpierpoint, West Sussex, UK
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I have just got a reply from BOM (see below) which I wanted to post asap so others much more knowledgeable than me could digest and consider.

Dear Neil,

The Bureau's use of apparent temperature is described at http://www.bom.gov.au/info/thermal_stress/index.shtml. From the table displayed there your calculations would appear to be broadly correct. The paper cited (Steadman 1994) is available at http://www.bom.gov.au/amoj/docs/1994/steadman.pdf.

Having looked at the Steadman paper, I would make the following observations:

- the apparent temperature curves have been fitted over a temperature range of -5 to +45 C (representing the typical Australian range of conditions) - with any curve-fitting exercise one might expect the least reliable fit to be at the ends.
- the apparent temperature is described as being based on someone moving at walking pace (i.e. experiencing an effective wind speed of a few km/h even if the winds are calm). As someone who has a certain amount of experience as a long-distance runner in extreme cold conditions I can certainly testify as to how much difference it can make going into the wind as opposed to with it.

From what I've seen of the Steadman paper I would not recommend the use of that formula for temperatures significantly below 0 C as it is not calibrated through most of that range. The Canadian index (http://www.ec.gc.ca/meteo-weather/defau ... 5FBF816A-1) is more appropriate for that situation.

Blair
National Climate Centre
Australian Bureau of Meteorology

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:27 am 
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Location: Devon UK
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Thanks for that Neil :) The BOM formula is the one I'm using. I can now see why the apparent temp is so low when there's no wind - makes sense now. The mention of sub-zero temperatures is interesting. I might switch to the Canadian formula for these conditions. Although we only get sub-zero temperatures for a few weeks a year here (in the warmer SW), the apparent temperature is rather more important when it's very cold. Something else to go on the software wish list!

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 Post subject: Re: Apparent Temperature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:43 am 
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The Canadian formula - aka the North American formula, aka the 'new' wind chill formula - is the one Cumulus uses for wind chill.

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