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Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Discussion specific to Fine Offset and similar rebadged weather stations
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danham
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun 07 Feb 2016 5:11 pm
Weather Station: re-badged WS-1080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by danham »

Hello, new here and very impressed with the Cumulus software. Less so with the rebadged FO WS-1080 I'm using (sold as PCE FWS-20).

This isn't really a Cumulus issue, but the program's error logging helped me pin it down a bit. When I first booted up the FO, everything worked fine for a few days. Then the wind direction indicator on the console began going blank, intermittently. Then all of the sensor display fields started showing dashes. My first attempt to fix this involved getting rid of the rechargeable alkalines and substituting known good NiMh cells. This worked for a few days, then the dashes came back.

As of now, I am running non-rechargeable alkalines and if necessary will put tape over the solar panel. My hope is that the solar (I do not have the model with the solar pod/UV sensor) will supply enough to run the transmitter and the batteries will carry it through dark days and nights. But for the fist 24 hours after installing the regular AAs, I kept getting the dashes. At first I rebooted the console each time, but after connecting to Cumulus, noticed that it would report about a dozen loss of contact errors, each 10 seconds apart, and then the console would recover and display data from the sensors until the next round of errors.

I left it overnight last night, figuring I'd tape off the solar panel today, assuming excess voltage was the problem. But it's been sunny all day and I have not had a single error. Another possible factor is that we had about 5" of snow on the day the errors were coming and going and the wind vane was frozen in place for some of that time, and the anemometer was definitely clogged with snow and running slow. But as everything thawed, things began working properly. Coincidence?

I have found no difference in behavior based on where I put the console -- it is never more than about 30 feet from the transmitter.

So, any suggestions? How imminent is the risk of damaging the TX by leaving the solar panel uncovered with regular alkalines in there? And any ideas on how to ensure the errors don't come back?

Many thanks,

Dan Hamilton
Cape Cod, MA
Cumulus 1.9.4 build 1099

UPDATE: After many hours of error-free operation, this morning (Feb 8) at 06:12 it started throwing "lost sensor contact" errors again and continued until 06:31, when it recovered and has been running for two hours with no issues.
AllyCat
Posts: 1124
Joined: Sat 26 Feb 2011 1:58 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset 1080/1 & 3080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: SE London

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by AllyCat »

Hi Dan,
danham wrote: So, any suggestions? How imminent is the risk of damaging the TX by leaving the solar panel uncovered with regular alkalines in there? And any ideas on how to ensure the errors don't come back?
Welcome to the forum. Cover the PV panel if you wish, but there is almost no risk if not doing so. "Normal" AA Alkaline cells and so-called "Rechargeable Alkaline" are basically the same technology (they are just marketed differently). Also, the FO Solar Pod that I tested appeared to have a voltage regulator built-in, so there should be no risk of over-charging the cells (and the power from the PV panel is very low). It seemed to me that the regulated voltage was too low to "correctly" charge Alkalines anyway.

Better rechargeable cells might be "Low Self-Discharge" NiMH, but their lower voltage (1.2v) might give even worse radio performance. Other possibilities are a pair of NiZn AAs (1.6v each but hard to find), or one LiFePO4 AA cell (3.2v , sometimes used in garden solar lights) with a "placeholder" (short-circuit) cell in the other half of the battery bay.

Unfortunately, the FO stations are notorious for "Lost Contacts" and rarely acheive their "specified" range. But also beware that the "license exempt" radio band that they use can be severely affected by radio interference (from computers, cellphones, etc.). A lot has been written on this forum, but can be summarised as:

Minimise the distance between transmitter and Console and test the Console with the USB cable unplugged (the cheap supplied cable can radiate interference). Try changing the orientation of the transmitter and maybe turning the Console, if possible.

Perhaps test with a pair of NiMH cells because if they don't work then neither will Alkalines after some months (when their voltage has fallen). If voltage seems critical, then the (rather expensive) non-rechargeable Lithium AA cells deliver significantly in excess of 1.5v each over almost their entire (extended) life (and have excellent low-temperature performance).

Cheers, Alan.
danham
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun 07 Feb 2016 5:11 pm
Weather Station: re-badged WS-1080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by danham »

Thanks, Alan.

What's frustrating is that it's very hard to test and isolate causes when the errors are so randomly and (now) infrequently spaced. Perhaps I had a low voltage problem, which I cured with regular AAs, and the errors got a lot less frequent. But now there are more unknowns which make the connection drop at times. It's been about 9 hours since the last round.

At any rate, appreciate the advice & info.

-dan
philcdav
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008 9:43 pm
Weather Station: MyDEL WX2008 Mk2 Fine Offset
Operating System: XP and W7
Location: Maghull, nr Liverpool, UK
Contact:

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by philcdav »

Hi Dan and welcome to a new life of 'lost contacts@ :)

What your describing is quite normal for this range of kit.

So, what are the solutions?

I have used most of the 'radio related' improvements such as getting the console (receiver) elevated, external aerials and aerial enhancements (reflectors), interference, etc.

You mention a range of 30 feet but thru what? Brick walls, concrete. wood, plaster board, windows (double glazed, tinted).

What is operation like when the units are 10 feet apart, line of sight? If you get errors like this there is no chance at 30 feet thru walls.

Batteries are critical. I ONLY use alkalines, even with the solar cells charging. We don't get much sun in Liverpool :) A new set usually runs for 12 months and then i chuck them anyway. Over the last 8 years this has worked fine.

The units are not well made and very cheap compared to quality kit. Sadly, you get what you pay for. That said, the later models are 'better'

Good luck and stick with. Ask if you need more help
Phil - G0DOR
danham
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun 07 Feb 2016 5:11 pm
Weather Station: re-badged WS-1080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by danham »

Phil,

Thank you very much. It's looking more and more like this is all about radio reception and range. I moved the console to a window that is line of sight to the TX, with only a hollow attic wooden roof gable in the way, and have not had a single lost contact error since. It's been three days in the new position.

I am using "regular" alkalines and the new mounting location for the TX and sensors means the solar panel is shaded anyway. During the morning the sun still heats up the sensor, so I get "kicked off" Weather Underground periodically for wacky data, but that is not a big deal for me.

I haven't been in your neck of the woods since doing research for a book on Capt. William Kidd a few years ago, but you're right; I didn't exactly need sun block.

-dan
philcdav
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008 9:43 pm
Weather Station: MyDEL WX2008 Mk2 Fine Offset
Operating System: XP and W7
Location: Maghull, nr Liverpool, UK
Contact:

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by philcdav »

Excellent.

Looked up Catain Kidd. What a rascal he was. Like most Dundee folk :)

Good luck
Phil - G0DOR
User avatar
gluepack
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue 22 Jan 2013 9:20 pm
Weather Station: PCE-FWS 20
Operating System: Win 7 Pro
Location: Zlatina, Bulgaria

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by gluepack »

Coincidentally, mine ( PCE FWS-20) has started playing up after three years. The latest was about 03:00 UTC today and it hasn't recovered yet.
I have moved everything associated with receiving, around the time this started, but only a short distance and the console hasn't changed location so I doubt it has anything to do with that.

However, it has given me the opportunity to see a tendency icon that I have never seen before and didn't know existed. It looks like snow, perhaps.
Image

PWS links: WundergroundIVARNAPR3CWOP/APRSE(W)2048PWSWeatherZLATINABGAwekas10631Twitter@Zlatina_weather
Station type: PCE-FWS 20…Webcam link: View south to edge of Provadisko plateau
dc1500
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu 04 Sep 2008 8:35 am
Weather Station: Watson W-8681 (Fine Offset type)
Operating System: Windows 10
Location: Laindon, S. Essex
Contact:

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by dc1500 »

Are we maybe barking up the wrong tree with this? I've been going for 8 years now and have been through the battery thing. I've noticed (and so has a friend with the same set up) that the number of unexplained "flat liners" has increased in recent months. I need to get the error log running again to be sure but I wonder about the change over to Windows 10 which we have both done. Done all the obvious things like turn off automatic updates and made sure no going into standby/hibernation modes. A restart or disconnection of USB lead usually fixes it. In both our cases they seem to be mostly or always on exact increments of time as in 3.00 am, 10.00 am etc which points to Windows doing something. Does Windows 10 handle the USB interface differently I wonder. Anyway, always first route to get to the error logs I guess.
Dave
Image
dc1500
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu 04 Sep 2008 8:35 am
Weather Station: Watson W-8681 (Fine Offset type)
Operating System: Windows 10
Location: Laindon, S. Essex
Contact:

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by dc1500 »

Further to the above the Windows 10 notion now looks unlikely as it would presumably affect all parameters, e.g. pressure and not just those coming from the outside sensor. On examination of the error log it would appear that the sensor is sending lots of spiked readings which are being ignored by my spike control and thereby appearing to flatline. Maybe I need new transmitter.
Image
philcdav
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008 9:43 pm
Weather Station: MyDEL WX2008 Mk2 Fine Offset
Operating System: XP and W7
Location: Maghull, nr Liverpool, UK
Contact:

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by philcdav »

I had a spell of 60 days without a 'lost contact' but since the sun cam back the issues have returned.

I have had a failure every day this week, usually within minutes of lower light level as the sun goes down around 1800.

The batteries are high current, 2.5 A NiMH.

It would be nice to isolate the solar section from the power, removing another area of issue.

I have also added more 'film' to the UV sensor as the values have been mad @ 14+

That said it have already had sunburn and peeled.

Not good being a redhead :)
Phil - G0DOR
maccpl
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 20 Jan 2016 10:26 pm
Weather Station: PCE-FWS-20
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by maccpl »

I have the same FWS-20 system by PCE and also have lost contact issues. Mine seem to be a little different. They seem to be associated with rain. At first I thought that the rain was attenuating the radio signal, and moved the console closer to the transmitter. I did the "move" twice more until I as about as close as I could get and remain inside the house. Things got a little better, but it was probably because we moved into the "dry" season here in Florida. When a good heavy rain came I had the disconnect again. I then tried to using a high quality dielectric grease on all of the "telephone" type connectors... thinking that perhaps water was intruding and causing a problem. But I still get problems, especially when the rain is heavy. I have not tried the external antenna options, but would be curious if perhaps a signal repeater might work. Unfortunately, I would guess that the devices on the market are probably tuned to specific weather systems and their specific data protocols. Anyone ever tried anything like this. I love my weather station, but would love to get rid of the disconnects and occasional false readings. PS I have my console connected to a Intel Compute Stick running windows 10 / Cumulus and it seems to work pretty well. I post the data to a website running Steel Gauges.
AllyCat
Posts: 1124
Joined: Sat 26 Feb 2011 1:58 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset 1080/1 & 3080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: SE London

Re: Intermittent loss of sensor contact

Post by AllyCat »

Hi,

It may be that the walls (through which the radio signal presumably has to pass) are getting damp and absorbing more of the radio energy. That may be more of an issue with the 915 MHz that your (USA) station should be using, compared with the 434 MHz common here in UK.

Ther was a very similar thread here about a month ago, so I won't repeat all the detail again. Post here, or in that thread, if you want more information.

Cheers, Alan.
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