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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Devon UK
Weather Station: FO WH1081PC (Maplin)
Operating System: OS X, Linux Mint, Win7 & XP
That's interesting :) Thank you for finding the info :) I thought it probably used FSK. That's Frequency Shift Keying for those who don't know. One frequency is used to transmit data 0 and another for data 1. This is a common modulation method for radio/wireless data transmission.

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Radstock Somerset UK
Weather Station: WH1081 (Maplin)
Operating System: windows 7 64bit
Nice find Mr.Sneezy
Here is the link for the transmitter
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/RF02.pdf
Also Antenna info
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/ANTENNAS_0102.pdf
And Pressure Sensor
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/HP01S.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:17 am
Posts: 28
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Weather Station: WH2081
Operating System: XP
Orion wrote:
Nice find Mr.Sneezy
It was a bit of luck. I was searching through general 433Mhz module datasheets and I noticed something familiar in one of them. It was the parts layout on the board, matched the posted photo here exactly. Then the 'bingo' moment :)

I have had a search around at using the module. They are a bit tricky to use, but it's been done by a few tinkerers so it's doable.

Now to see if I can find a cheap source that will sell one or two at a time. Then write some PIC MCU code (and post it here of course).
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:05 am
Posts: 10
Location: Rushden Northants England
Weather Station: Maplin N96GY
Operating System: windows xp
Have just had to replace the bearing in the anemometer, the old one felt like it had a lump of grit in it and had an intermittent tight spot. New one came from simply bearings for the princely sum of £2.29 plus £1.50 post.

part number MR105.2Z simplybearings.co.uk

Philip


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Radstock Somerset UK
Weather Station: WH1081 (Maplin)
Operating System: windows 7 64bit
Wonder how easy it is to replace the bearings as it seem only to be held in place by melting the plastic
perhaps it would be possible to use a screw and a couple of washers
could you post a photo when you have done it
nice link by the way :D

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:05 am
Posts: 10
Location: Rushden Northants England
Weather Station: Maplin N96GY
Operating System: windows xp
Too late! it's already back on it's pole.

I did look at a better fixing method but there is very little to drill and tap a thread into and as it was a tight fit I decided to add a small drop of super glue and push it on.

Philip


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Devon UK
Weather Station: FO WH1081PC (Maplin)
Operating System: OS X, Linux Mint, Win7 & XP
Philip wrote:
Too late! it's already back on it's pole.

I did look at a better fixing method but there is very little to drill and tap a thread into and as it was a tight fit I decided to add a small drop of super glue and push it on.

Philip
A tight fit is all that's necessary.

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Sorry, no banner - weather station out of action. Hoping to be up and running with a new home-made one soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:22 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Clayton, Ontario Canada
Weather Station: 1wire-Cumulus & Fine Offset
Operating System: Windows 7
Orion wrote:
Nice find Mr.Sneezy
Here is the link for the transmitter
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/RF02.pdf
Also Antenna info
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/ANTENNAS_0102.pdf
And Pressure Sensor
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/HP01S.pdf


If you want to build your own display, you might base it on the receiver used too, to make life simpler:
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/RF01.pdf

The SDI output is a standard, so using a PIC or similar to translate to RS232 should be really straight forward - making decoding the data a simple matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:17 am
Posts: 28
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Weather Station: WH2081
Operating System: XP
Charlie wrote:
If you want to build your own display, you might base it on the receiver used too, to make life simpler:
http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/RF01.pdf
The SDI output is a standard, so using a PIC or similar to translate to RS232 should be really straight forward - making decoding the data a simple matter.
Thanks Charlie.
Yes the RX is the RFM01. A search around on Ebay finds a guy selling the Transceiver version (RFM12) for around $12AU (inc post). The TX side could be disabled. I can't find the RFM01 cheap yet...
SPI is standard, but it's implementation in this module is fairly involved due to the number of parameters to be setup, and the vague datasheet. Many posts around on the WWW of people having issues understanding it.

I've had two thoughts of note since I last wrote. One is that the RFM12 Transceiver could actually be used as a range extender, the distance to the sensor TX could be much farther. Hope also make a high power version with PA, and that seems to have up to 3km reach under the right conditions.
These ideas rely on the sensor TX being too far away from the RX station to 'hear' it, but the RFM12 to be in between where it can. The RFM12 repeater would hold the data burst (via MCU), then send it on again a moment later. Hope that makes sense.

Second thought is that it may be possible to 'port sniff' the SPI lines in the RX display station and decode the RFM01 setup parameters as the MCU sends them at power up. That would save guessing the bandwidth and other hard to guess RF settings. That would be a once-off thing, only to find the information once (and post it here).

Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:27 pm
Posts: 171
Location: leiden,Netherlands
Weather Station: wh1080 /ws4000(alecto) XP-sp2
Any possibility to change the transmission intervall from 48 seconds to say 30,10 or even continuously?

yet another "mystery" solved of this "simple station". :clap: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Devon UK
Weather Station: FO WH1081PC (Maplin)
Operating System: OS X, Linux Mint, Win7 & XP
hans wrote:
Any possibility to change the transmission intervall from 48 seconds to say 30,10 or even continuously?
I'm afraid not! You'd need to change the programming in the chip.

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:17 am
Posts: 28
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Weather Station: WH2081
Operating System: XP
hans wrote:
Any possibility to change the transmission intervall from 48 seconds to say 30,10 or even continuously?

yet another "mystery" solved of this "simple station". :clap: :clap:

Probably not. The issue is that the sensor TX is clocked to send at 48 second intervals, and also the RX in the display may well only be active for a few seconds before an expected next transmission. That may be done to save battery power at the display. It would also explain why the stations take time to sync up. To speculate further, it may be that the RX waits continuously at initial power up for a data transmission, then clocks further RX module power-ups to say 47 seconds later, just in time for the next transmission.
That's probably how I'd do it, to use as little battery power as possible in the display.

So if you follow my logic and speculation, in wireless mode it may require both ends to be modified for faster updates to be possible. Or, they missed an opportunity to save power...

All speculation of course at this time.

Martin
PS. Had another thought (again). If somebody runs two complete same systems near each other but initialized separately, do they ever get an issue where two displays seem to lock to one TX eventually ?
I'm thinking it's possible to have timing drift between two systems cause the TX with the slightly faster updates (like 47.999 seconds instead of 48.000) to 'capture' the second systems display...
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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Devon UK
Weather Station: FO WH1081PC (Maplin)
Operating System: OS X, Linux Mint, Win7 & XP
mr.sneezy wrote:
Had another thought (again). If somebody runs two complete same systems near each other but initialized separately, do they ever get an issue where two displays seem to lock to one TX eventually ?
I've not had a problem with that when running for several days
Quote:
I'm thinking it's possible to have timing drift between two systems cause the TX with the slightly faster updates (like 47.999 seconds instead of 48.000) to 'capture' the second systems display...
It might eventually but since the transmitter is crystal controlled I think it would be a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:58 pm
Posts: 503
Location: SE London
Weather Station: Fine Offset 1080/1 & 3080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Hi,

The crystals may differ in frequency by perhaps one part per million which represents 1 second in about 11 days. For this case, on average the messages from two transmitters might drift into collision in about nine months. The problem is that they may then continue colliding for many days or even weeks, totally blocking the transmissions for one or both systems. The duration of interference would depend on the length of the data messages and how long it takes the receiver to recover from a "wrong" message (e.g. AGC recovery or clock resynchronisation) etc..

If the transmitted data contains some "address" information then the receiver may recognise the "wrong" data and ultimately be able to lock onto the correct transmission again. But if there is no address (i.e. the receiver just locks onto any message within the expected timing window), then the receiver could permanently lock onto the wrong signal.

When I designed a similar system some years ago, I introduced a short, pseudo-random delay/offset (implemented with a "maximal length feedback shift register" emulated in firmware) for each message, so that never more than a few consecutive collisions could occur. If anybody discovers how (or if) the FO devices reliably accommodate multiple transmitters, then it's probably worth starting a dedicated thread.
_____

But back to the original topic, here is an internal photo of the wind vane head. I wanted to see the arrangement of the magnetic circuit with a view to improving the "equality" of the 16 compass sectors (and maybe damping the rotation as well). I will start a dedicated thread in due course, but for now it's sufficient to say that the magnet is the small vertical silver rod at the far right and the two empty recesses nearer the centre are perhaps for additional magnets if the relays fail to operate adequately on the production line. The bearing appears identical to that in the anemometer, i.e. with external and internal diameters of 10 and 5 mm, and the hole in cental "shaft" is 2.5mm.

The method I used to dismantle the head was to insert a thin, wide strip of steel (I used a 6" engineers' ruler, but a table knife or even a thin coin might work) into the gap between the rotating and stationary parts, twisting it gently and moving continuously around the circumference. After a minute or two, the gap was noticeably larger, so I continued until the head popped off. I cannot say if I was "lucky", therefore you attempt this method entirely at your own risk. ;)

Cheers, Alan.


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 Post subject: Re: Photos of the insides of Fine Offset sensors.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:05 am
Posts: 10
Location: Rushden Northants England
Weather Station: Maplin N96GY
Operating System: windows xp
Hi to one and all

About a month ago I relocated my system to the middle of a field where I fly from. I took the opportunity to do some tests on the wind vane. I measured the resistance on the output and slowly moved the vane round the full 360 deg. It never switched on two of the reed switches at once; I only ever got the resistance readings of each of the single resistors.

I then reconnected the system and repeated the 360 deg. rotation with the same results; only the eight points were ever displayed. However, if during the 48 second period of non transmision I moved the vane plus and minus a few degrees from it's position I sometimes got a display reading in between the eight points.

Now that the system is installed in its new home all apears to be working normally but the prime points are recorded many more time than the other eight. From this I concluded that the other eight are software generated.

Any thoughts?

With hindsight I should have replaced the wind vane with fixed resistors to the transmitter to simulate two switches on at the same time and see what was displayed.

Light winds and blue skies :D

Philip


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