Sandaysoft

Just wondered: why must the Control part of Cumulus be started for the Viewer to work? Is that a technical requirement or?
I just wanted to have a look at some Cumulus2 graphs, but had Cumulus1 running, so would not start the Cumulus2 Control.
Only to find that the Viewer would not work without the Control...
Thought the whole idea was to split Cumulus into 2 independent parts: one reading data off the station and storing it into the database, and one - or any number of - independent program(s) that would present data from the database?

_________________
Ib http://www.ibtest.dk/vejr/

The control doesn't need to be running, but the service does. The viewer gets its data via the service - even historical data - it wouldn't be able to operate remotely otherwise.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

So there are 3 components: control, server, and viewer?
And control and server are packaged into what is called Cumulus Control?
I am not nitpicking - just trying to understand...

_________________
Ib http://www.ibtest.dk/vejr/

The service and the controller have to be installed on the same machine, so I packaged them up into the same installer. So the installer with cumuluscontrolsetup.msi in it installs the service (that's the bit where it asks you for a username and password) and the control application. So it really has been split into two parts - the service and the viewer. The control application is just a utility that's needed because the service has no GUI. You only need to run the control application when you want to start/stop/configure the service etc. You can close it when you're not using it.

The viewer doesn't have to be on the same machine, so it has a separate installer.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

Steve, I have not yet installed Cumulus 2 ... been busy with some misbehaving scripts...

When a computer is rebooted, after Cumulus 2 has been installed, I presume that the service part of Cumulus 2 will start automatically (to communicate with the weather station console) - is the controller (or the control application) also started during the boot sequence or is the controller only started (manually) when adjustments have to be made to the service?

Can Cumulus 2 communicate with the weather station console using an intermediary software such as SoftWx Virtual VP?

With this new release of Cumulus 2, will it be possible to (also) run simultaneously Cumulus1 - I would use SoftWx Virtual VP and assign a different port number to each version of Cumulus to prevent communication conflicts?

The service is a standard Windows Service so can be configured to start automatically using the Windows Service Console. The controller does not have the ability to set the service to auto-start at the moment. The controller doesn't need to auto-start, as you correctly say it only needs to be run when an adjustment is required.


Yes, the service just expects anything that looks like a weather station, the same as Cumulus 1.


Yes, allowing for the apparent incompatibilities between Virtual VP and the Davis DLL which Cumulus 1 uses. Cumulus 2 does not use the DLL.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

Steve, I have had the 2 Cumulus running most of the day - so far, no problem.

You mentioned:
I just looked at my Windows 7 services screen and noticed something odd - the 'CumulusService' is the only one service log on as {myusername} - all the other services are either log on as {Local Service} or {Network Service}. I am right in presuming that the 'CumulusService' will only run when I am log on the computer.

Is there a possibility, eventually, that you could get the 'CumulusService' to run as {Local Service} with automatic startup whenever the computer is booted up - so that the 'CumulusService' would automatically start upon computer startup even before anyone logs on onto the computer? This option would make the 'CumulusService' fully automatic without user action.

It runs as a standard user so that files can be held in that user. The ability to start when Windows boots, without anyone logging on, is not related to this in any way.

A caveat to this is that I haven't actually tested automatic startup, but that doesn't alter what I said above. If it doesn't work, that's simply a bug. There's also the consideration that if you want to use Virtual VP, that will need to be running before the Cumulus service starts. The service doesn't currently retry the connection; but this would probably be easy to add if it proved necessary.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

Steve, please do not read/see my questions as being nasty to you or questioning your knowledge as a software programmer - I am just trying to understand and find out if some operations can even be done or done differently, such as can the 'CumulusService' be started automatically without the need of a user log on.

Steve, I have a couple of utilities that, upon computer boot, are log on as {Local Service} and their data and log files are always available, no matter which user eventually logs on the computer.

I am sorry but you lost me here - the 'CumulusService' by default, as installed, does not (nor will not) start automatically - the service 'Startup type' for the 'CumulusService' as installed is set to manual.

I understand that I can change the 'Startup type' to 'Automatic' (or even to 'Automatic with delayed start on Windows 7). But my point is that, over the years, I have strongly discourage average users to make any modifications to the Windows service on their computers - one is asking for problems if one expect an average Windows user to start modifying any of the services or for that matter any of the internal default Windows settings...

As I tried point out, unless the 'CumulusService' is manually changed from the 'Startup type' of 'Manual' to the 'Startup type' of 'Automatic', the 'CumulusService' will not automatically restart on the next computer boot.

The suggestion I am trying to make is that the 'Startup type' for the 'CumulusService' be selectable within the 'Cumulus Control' program with options such as 'Manual' and 'Automatic'.

A possible problem might be that neither the serial nor the USB port is (yet) available until a user has log on...

I did not try the automatic restart upon boot of Cumulus 2 - I cannot as I am using Virtual VP.

Steve, the questions/requests above were not for me - I know very well that the Cumulus 2 installed on my computer cannot and will not start until Virtual VP has started and that only happens once I have log on my computer (eventually, I might run Virtual VP as a service).

But most computer users do not use Virtual VP - their Cumulus 2 access the serial or USB port directly - but, as I wrote above, are those ports available prior to the user log on.

I understand that, I've been a software developer for 30 years. I'm used to software having bugs, I'm used to people asking questions, and I try to answer them as efficiently as I can. That's what I'm trying to do here. Don't interpret my succinctness or lack of smilies as an indication of me being annoyed, or anything else. Besides, I am perfectly happy for people to question my knowledge as a Windows developer as I haven't been doing that for very long, and this is the first time I have ever written a service application. So, having cleared that up...

But do they put their files in the user's file store? I am trying to run Cumulus with the lowest privilege that it needs, and the recommendation is that the appropriate user for it to run under is a normal user. If it turns out that a lot of people don't set passwords on their users, I may have to look at this again.

That's right, but you can change it using the standard Windows Service Console. At the moment this is the only way to do it as I haven't yet put the functionality into the control application.

It's just Cumulus, it's not a system service. It's a standard windows user application with about a dozen lines of extra code to control starting it up and closing it down. Using the Windows Service Console to control it is exactly the same as using the Cumulus control application.

Yes, I will do that eventually, but as I've said, there's no 'magic' to this, it's exactly the same as using the Windows Service Console.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

Steve after a long walk and additional thinking something became clearer to me - Cumulus 2 cannot and should not be started as a {Local Service} of before the log on procedures.

As I wrote in my previous post, more likely, neither the serial nor the USB port would be accessible to Cumulus 2 until the user has log on.

I do not think that Cumulus 2 would be able to start or access its database until the user has log on.

One feature I would eventually like to see in the 'Cumulus Control' would be an option for Cumulus 2 to either start manually or automatically whenever I log on my computer.

Now, you only need to figure out a way for Cumulus 2 to start on a computer where a user has not setup a username or a password...

A request if possible: Would it be possible on the 'Cumulus Viewer' main screen to give less priority to the indoor temperature and humidity - I certainly cannot and would not trust the indoor temperature and humidity reading reported by all/any of my (3) Vantage consoles as they are locate in the office on a metal shelf/rack above/near numerous computers, even if that office is air conditioned (almost all year long). May I suggest, maybe, that both indoor temperature and humidity be group together under the heading of 'Indoor' at the bottom of the left column, under the barometric pressure information.

I think that's highly unlikely, and would be a huge disappointment to me if it were the case, as one of the reasons for making it a service was that it would be able to run automatically without the user logging on. But there's only one way to be sure... I'll try it.
That's easy to achieve without any changes to Cumulus, by using the usual methods of starting up programs automatically at log on, just as it is with Cumulus 1; the only complication is that because it's a service you would need to run a 'net start ...' command. But the intention is that an automatic startup would be at system startup time not user login time. If someone wants to arrange something else that's up to them, I have enough code to write and support as it is.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

I've tried setting the service startup to automatic on my Windows 7 machine connected to my Fine Offset USB station, and on my WHS machine connected to my serial VP2, and in both cases the service started up when Windows started (without requiring a user to log in), downloaded the data from the station and stored it in the database, and continued to run correctly.

It's made me realise one thing though; my USB wireless networking (Netgear Wireless-N Dual Band) on my Win 7 box doesn't start working until a user logs in, which is pretty useless. I wonder if there is any way to get it to start when Windows starts...

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!

Steve, I think the WLAN should 'just work' before login - so long as you are using the MS software to control it and have created the WLAN for 'All users'. If you use the WLAN card manufacturers software to configure the WLAN connections then all bets are off.

_________________
Mark
Wilmslow Astro Weather

Yes, I asked on the Netgear forum and got the same answer. I've switched to the MS configuration but haven't yet got around to seeing if it works before login.

_________________
Steve
Sanday Weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Cumulus and want to support it? Please donate!