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Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Discussion specific to Fine Offset and similar rebadged weather stations
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g0gcd
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 6:57 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset WH3080 (Solar)
Operating System: Windows 7
Location: Rothwell NN14 6JE UK
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Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by g0gcd »

I have used the WH1081 for 4 years, with little trouble (usual sensor wear and tear and bird poop). Recently, a new radio signal popped up on 433.92. This repeatedly sent a 250ms burst every 10 seconds or so, starting at around bedtime. Due to the Fine Offset communications protocol, this didn't give problems until typically around 2-3am when it knocked my sensors out of synch with the console. This resulted in an 'outage' of up to 12 hours until the pair re-synchronised.

I tried fitting an external antenna and making it directional but because the console itself is not screened, I couldn't prevent the disruption from the interfering signal.

So next, I tried a WH3080 on 868 MHz. I checked that the frequency was clear before purchase (smart move, eh?) and installed the new station last weekend. First disappointment - 868MHz only seems to carry half the distance of 433MHz, which in my case is to the bottom of the mast but not indoors. I eventually found a windowsill where I could perch the console and get synchronisation and then began the physical migration of the associated PC to that location. However, in the meantime, Second disappointment - the WH3080 stopped sending wind direction - a fault eventually traced by substitution of parts to the sender transmitter, so that's now on it's way back for replacement. That's the end of 868 for me, for now.

Anyway, apologies for the lengthy background but it explains why I am considering another option.
The Fine Offset stations are known for two problems (apart from batteries, sensors and transmitters), namely 'loss of the sensor' and 'breakdown of the USB'. I was considering whether the console could be eliminated completely by the use of a USB TV Stick operating as an SDR radio receiver, plugged directly into the stations PC.

My theory is that by having better control of the receiver and not having to worry about power supply, I could implement a more sophisticated interference handling regime, allowing me to return to the longer range 433MHz band. Instead of waiting for the 12 hours for the two parties to drift back into alignment, a more intelligent algorithm could be used to determine the timing drift between console and transmitter, predicting better when the transmitter is on, thus reducing the relocking time. Also, by having the receiver in the PC, there is no console to PC USB link to fail, thus eliminating that problem as well.

So, to the two questions that I have (and these may belong in two threads):
Has anyone implemented an SDR receiver for the Fine Offset series of stations (and are they willing to share that?)
Is there a way of inputting the extracted data from the 'receiver' into Cumulus, bypassing the USB input (for example, can it be done using the EasyWeather file?)

Would appreciate any input before I launch myself into this quest..

As another approach, I am also considering the use of passive radio repeaters to reflect the 868MHz signal from the mast into the room where the console is - if I get a working 868MHz system back!

Currently off line :cry:

John
Rothwell NN14
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PaulMy
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by PaulMy »

Is there a way of inputting the extracted data from the 'receiver' into Cumulus, bypassing the USB input (for example, can it be done using the EasyWeather file?)
I don't have a FineOffset nor easyweather.dat so can't answer but this may help to understand http://wiki.sandaysoft.com/a/EasyWeathe ... eather.dat

Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro2+
C1 www.komokaweather.com/komokaweather-ca
MX www.komokaweather.com/cumulusmx/index.htm /index.html /index.php
MX www.komokaweather.com/cumulusmxwll/index.htm /index.html /index.php
MX www. komokaweather.com/cumulusmx4/index.htm

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VTHokie74
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by VTHokie74 »

That is an interesting concept. Do you know what kind of encoding FO uses for the transmitted data? I wonder if there would be a market for a "headless" weather station consisting of a sensor array and a USB dongle? I hardly need a console for my Davis. If I want to see the values I can just use my phone, tablet or a PC.
Station: Davis Vantage Pro 2/CumulusMX/Raspberry Pi 3
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steve
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by steve »

I know nothing about SDR radio, but have you looked at the Weatherduino? This uses Fine Offset (and other) sensors, and gets its data into Cumulus by the very neat approach of emulating a Davis weather station.
Steve
g0gcd
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 6:57 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset WH3080 (Solar)
Operating System: Windows 7
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by g0gcd »

Thanks for the steers.
I am currently looking at the weatherduino solution that you've pointed at, but can't quite yet get my head around what I need to buy and what I can build. I can see how to use my current sensors, so this approach looks like it might be a go-er. I can probably review the source code for the radio comms to see if it can handle my particular problem with interference.
If not, then there's always the TV Stick approach. It's so annoying that I can clearly hear my 'wanted' signal on my walkie talkie, so it shouldn't be difficult to get it out - but the weatherduino might be an easier option!
I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks again
John
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VTHokie74
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by VTHokie74 »

SDR stands for software defined radio. The short description is that a variable RF oscillator is used to mix RF signals down to a frequencies that a PC sound card can handle. Then the tuning, filtering, detection, etc. can be handled digitally in the PC. If you go to websdr.org you can tune and listen to various SDR's around the world.
Station: Davis Vantage Pro 2/CumulusMX/Raspberry Pi 3
AllyCat
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by AllyCat »

Hi John,

Concerning the 3081, did you test the range with the USB cable disconnected ? At least the 434 MHz version is well known to radiate inferference from the USB port and a better cable may help.
g0gcd wrote:I have used the WH1081 for 4 years,
The first consideration is whether that station uses the "Old" Fine Offset wireless protocol or the "New" one. Surprisingly, the old protocol used a complex (FM/FSK) wireless chip, whilst the new ones (including the 308x) use simple OOK (On-Off-Keying). I've never had any success capturing/decoding the old protocol but the new one is easy. For example, search for information from Kevin Sangalee and/or on the Raspberry Pi forum.

All the senosrs on the FO stations are "compatible" (with the exception that the Solar Pod needs to connect to an appropriate T/H transmitter) and the wireless protocols are also compatible (the 308x transmits an additional "Solar Data" packet). Obviously a 434 MHz transmitter cannot "talk" to a 868 MHz Console, or vice versa, but it did appear that it (now) might be possible to swap only the radio receiver module.

Unfortuantely, the WeatherDuino uses the Arduino "VirtualWire" library for its wireless protocol, so you need to "hack" that to transmit/receive data for the WeatherDuino (or of course use an Arduino). It's something I want/need to do in the future (or hope somebody else will do first) but I don't yet know if it will be better to port VirtualWire onto my processor, or to receive the FO protocol into some modified Weatherduino code (as was done for the "AuriolDuino" version).

Cheers, Alan.
g0gcd
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 6:57 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset WH3080 (Solar)
Operating System: Windows 7
Location: Rothwell NN14 6JE UK
Contact:

Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by g0gcd »

Well, I didn't get very far with the SDR approach. I had a little problem with my carrier smashing up the faulty 868 unit on return and having to go through the insurance claim rigmarole.

The 868 MHz unit is now on and running well. Well, for about 9 months... Guess what, the interference has now cropped up on the 868 MHz band as well, so I'm starting to get lockouts There. Yes it is interference, I have some sophisticated radio gear which allows me to hear exactly what's going on at that frequency...

So, another approach occurred to me. Has anyone tried using two radio links in diversity? I can believe that the single set of sensors could be tee'd into the 868 and 433 transmitters and I have the two consoles. I have sufficient PCs to support the consoles but haven't yet thought through how I could use my network to pass data from the 'working' link to a single database/Cumulus instance to drive the website.

As a result of the issue with postage, I actually have two 868 consoles and had considered the same approach using the one transmitter to the two consoles but I am thinking that it's unlikely that the alarm system (or whatever 'cordless' gizmo it is) would hit 868 and 433 at the same time, allowing the links some time to re-sync.

Or perhaps, two Cumulus'es with a switch, so that when the primary link 'loses sensor contact', it stops sending to the web and allows the secondary to take over. There's some options here (but it would be really nice if there was a more solid synchronisation in the FO units!)

Thoughts?

Thanks
John
philcdav
Posts: 244
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Weather Station: MyDEL WX2008 Mk2 Fine Offset
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Re: Cumulus 1 and SDR radio

Post by philcdav »

Hi John

Interested in SDR possibilities myself but thats for another day.

I wonder if you have tried a slightly different 'directional aerial' solution?

The console aerial could be made directional by fitting a reflector behind the unit.

There are several designs for paper/foil based reflectors ...

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-WIF ... n-Booster/

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=paper ... Ywq3X0zmWM:

A cheap and cheerful approach that may work.

Another solution could be to beam signals directly at each other. Or, how about cable? is the distance great? TV coax would do.

Regards - Phil (G0DOR -qthr)
Phil - G0DOR
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